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  • Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I picked up a set of 9mm Hornady Series II Dies at a local gun shop's sale. Being 9mm, I assumed they came with a taper crimp die. When I got home, I looked at their case and could not see any indication of the style of crimp included in the set. Before taking the plastic off, I called Hornady and gave them the item number on the box. They told me that item #546515 are 9mm roll crimp dies. I have since made arrangements with my local gun shop to exchange them for item #546516 (taper crimp set).

    While at Bass Pro Shop last weekend, I checked their die selection just to see what 9mm Hornady dies that they carried. They also stocked item #546515 (roll crimp set). Am I missing something here? Every manual I have says Taper Crimp 9mm.

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  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    Howdy Turkeyhillmarksman, first of all welcome at the hub.

    The Hornady die-set #546515 you exchanged could be used for both roll and taper crimp. There is even an extra taper crimp die available #044170 for this die-set (this needless to say would set you back a few bucks extra). Or you could have turned the seater die back a little bit to prevent the bullet to be roll crimped, this is the most common practice with this die-set. I use the 546515 set (+ the 044170 die) for over 17 years now and it has worked super for me.

    Your new (taper crimp) die-set #546516 would serve you perfectly fine. By the way, Hornady has the #546516 not that long in their collection, correct me when I’m wrong: less than half a year or so.

    Like you said most 9mm loads mentioned in the manuals are taper crimped. But you can also use a roll crimp on them. Although not common there a few 9mm bullet designs with a crimp canalure/recess. When you have these bullets it’s recommended to roll crimp them. You can achieve higher pressures and velocities when you roll crimp 9mm’s (or similar cartridges).

    A roll crimp also can prevent the bullets from “travelling”, in some situations this can be a necessity. I don’t use a roll crimp on my 9mm’s or .45acp’s with cast/lead bullets. The roll crimp seems to damage the bullet baring surface to much, this negatively effects the accuracy.

    It’s a extra step but some reloaders like to seat the (pistol/revolver) bullets first at the correct height and with an extra die to roll or taper crimp them. For some loads I’m one of those (pistol/revolver) reloaders. 
      
    PJ

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  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    Thank you for the information. Until now, my other pistol dies sets have only been RCBS. I understand what you are saying, but I do think Hornady should clearly mark the contents of their die sets so consumers can tell what crimp that they are intended to perform by looking at the package as RCBS does when they denote r/c or t/c.

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  • ,,,

    Edited by dangun, 2 years ago

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I have used the Lee Deluxe 4 die set for years for my 9mm.  I have never had a bullet creep using these dies.  I guess I am just a cheap SOB.  I must have like 40 die sets and all but 5 are Lee products.  I like their ease of use, and of course they are easier on the wallet.

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I forgot to mention one thing, with the 9mm die-set one can reload about 10 or so similar 9mm rounds. So one die-set for more (9mm) calibers. Some of those other calibers actually do have roll crimps in certain combinations! If Hornady had that in mind, I honesty don’t know.

    I got my Hornady 9mm die-set for free from someone else who quit reloading his 9x21mm. Unknown to me at that time that you should turn the seater-die back out the press I bought the extra taper crimp die. Sometimes we have to pay for the things we learn.

    Just to name a couple well known calibers that can be reloaded with the same die-set: 9mm Para/Luger, 9x18mm, 9mm Ultra, 9mm Makarov, 9mm Steyr, 9mm FAR, 9x21, 9x23mm, 9x23WIN, 256TSW. And with a bit reloading experience also the 380ACP/AUTO, but when you have this caliber I recommend the use of the intended die-set (much easier and better). Especially if you use a high end or match pistol go for the 380 die-set.

    I know about 3 people who use the 9mm FAR with roll crimped bullets, but this caliber comes with a pistol designed for higher pressures.

    Some cast/lead 9mm bullet moulds drop out 9mm bullets with a roll crimp recess. I strongly advice (like Dan mentioned) not to use the roll crimp. But since you are going for the taper crimp die-set you don’t have anything to worry about that. The fact that you noticed the confusion about the 9mm roll vs. taper crimp just showed that you took the time to get familiar with the manual(s). If only more people out there did that!

    Have fun reloading the 9mm and if you have some other questions just let us know. You can find some good info/topics about the 9mm right here at the HUB.

    PJ

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    Edited by dangun, 2 years ago

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    Hello Turkeryhillmarksman and welcome. I agree with Dan and PJ on using the taper crimp. Another reason for the taper crimp is for the proper head space. The semi-auto rounds for pistol head space on the case mouth and if a roll crimp were to be used this would negate this. I also use the Lee die sets with the factory taper crimp die. I seat the bullet then crimp seperately. Also good job on reading your manuals!

    Edited by Hacker54, 2 years ago

  • Rollcrimp v.s. Tapercrimp

    I agree with with Dangun, the bulletdiam of te 9mm Makarov is bigger

    than the 9mm Luger. Both dimensiondrawings I will publisch today.

    I personal prefer on all my automatics a tapercrimp in my opinion it

    gives the bullet a better stabillity and therefor moere accurat.

    By the way, the 9mm Glisenty is almost Identical at the 9mm Luger but

    less powerful.

     Thats why the Italian partizans destroying their Glisentis

    by firing the 9mm Luger with it. They were easier to get at those days.

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  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I asked a friend of mine to make a picture of the 9mm FAR he uses. This is 9x24mm case, altough the picture is not of a high quality, you can see clearly see the "roll crimp" he uses. The brass is darn expensive to buy (only Lapua seems to sell it). The gun he uses is a special Tanfoglio pistol. I cannot vouch that this a safe practice, for this particular caliber !!!!

    Personally I won't do it and stick to the taper crimp. It seems that this caliber comes close to the 10mm's, so why not go for a .40 or 10mm???

    PJ

    9mm FAR  (9x24mm FAR)

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  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    PJ, I don't know much about this caliber or the firearm for it. I wander what the head space specs are for it. Does it head space on the case mouth or by other means?

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    My friend just send me this picture about the special 9mm / 150gr  bullet with a crimp cannalure. I talked about 9mm where roll crimping might be a necessity. This seems to be such a bullet.

    Hacker you are right, I never would use a heavy crimped round like that in a semi-auto

    PJ

    9mm 150gr with crimp cannalure

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  • ...

    Edited by dangun, 2 years ago

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

     

    Why not go for a .40 or 10mm was mend for the fact Tangfoglio made this pistol and caliber specially for the competitions (at least I was told so). Not so much about choosing a particular (existing) caliber. At the time the 9mm FAR came out there were lots of other excellent calibers available, like you mentioned. This is probably why the 9mm FAR is not much used or not well known today. My question mark came out probaly the wrong way (not my best English) Wink

    PJ

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  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I appreciate all of the thoughtful repsonses to my questions. As I read your responses, I continue to scratch my head and wonder why Hornady would not have the taper crimp die standard issue in a die set that is primarily used for semi-autos; especially when head space issues are at risk. I reload for my 40 and have always used RCBS carbide die set with a taper crimp inlcuded. I use RCBS carbide dies with a roll crimp for my 38/357 and 44 dies. I do have some LEE reloading products, but in general, I have not been as pleased with their durability compared to RCBS. I realize that comes with a price difference.

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    Edited by dangun, 2 years ago

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I understand that it is my responsiblity as the consumer to buy the correct set. Once I discovered that I had the incorrect set, I ordered the correct set from my local gun shop and made arrangements to exchange them. What I do not understand is why Hornady sends the 546515 roll crimp die sets as the primary 9mm die set to their dealers. Likewise, I do not understand why, as a consumer, I cannot pick up the die set off the shelf and see what crimp style it contains by looking at the label on the package. Lesson learned.

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  • Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    You are absolutely correct, the package set should be clearly labeled, if there is a choice with their die sets. Frown

    My first ever 9mm set of Hornady 9mm dies were roll crimp & being a complete newbie at the time I just assumed they were correct & loaded as such. Embarassed

    It was only after many months of shooting that I read taper crimping/head spacing for 9mm semi auto's was standard, my club members & fellow shooters just assumed I was taper crimping.  Smile

    Anyway there was no damaged done, my Browning HP just seems to chew up anything I throw at it. Cool

  • ***

    Edited by dangun, 2 years ago

  • Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    I know this is an old post, but I think some of the information I have was not covered.

    I use the same Hornady New Dimension dies # 544515 and I too could not figure out why they put a roll crimp die in the set.  I even took an empty case, sized it, flared it, and ran the seating die all the way down to see what the crimp would look like.  I almost looks like a minature 357 SIG case.  It definitely show the roll crimp.  I called Hornady just now and they stated that they just (2012) started putting the taper crimp die in their die sets.

    OK!!! Why have I and so many of the previous posters putting a very slight roll crimp on our cases able to pull the trigger and hear it go bang???  If you have a your reloading books handy look up the 9mm Luger (Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, page 795) and look at the diagram of the cartridge.  This case is NOT really a straight case like the 40 S&W or 10mm or 9mm Kurz.  There is a real taper to the case.  The mouth is .380" but the case web is .391".  That might explain why it still goes bang eventhough we have a slight roll crimp because it is headspacing

    BTW I will be getting a taper crimp die because I believe as the handbook states "Use little or no crimp when reloading the 9mm since it headspaces on the mouth of the case." Emphasis added.

    Regards............kickinback

  • Re: Roll Crimp v. Taper Crimp

    Yep it will still go bang. But it could just as easily go boom. There are many cartridges that with still fire when loaded incorrectly. Why they tell you in the book that it spaces off the mouth of the case but then market a roll crimp die is one reason I don't own Hornady dies.  

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